lay netting

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Brian F.
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Re: lay netting

Post by Brian F. » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:43 pm

If the school was indeed netted, then that would be an enforcement issue because that is not allowed until November 1st. I wonder if anyone reported it? I hope they did and not just moan about it.

Oftentimes predators (like kawakawa, barracuda, papio and kahala) push the school into bays and protected areas close to shore. If the predators are gone because fishermen catch them, maybe they've done the school a favor and now it doesn't need to hang around.

df-19, sorry you had a bad day. That's how fishing is - you spend money on gas to scout and the success rate is very low. Pretty hard to get rich doing that. I'll add that what I said above is not BS but I do think you are reading too much into what I was saying. The people I know do give fish away, most often to sick people in their community and many times to people on shore in front of them (unless they are throwing lead). Not saying everyone or whoever is fishing Waimea does, just the people I know. Some go to school, others get training, and hopefully we do what we enjoy. Some go into public service. But we all have to eat. If we follow the idea that everyone is in it for the money and not for the good of the community, then doctors, caregivers, hospitals, roadworkers, public employees, everyone that provides things in supermarkets should all be doing things for free.
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Re: lay netting

Post by 808kutb8 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:23 pm

It is legal to surround opelu on August 1 at Waimea bay. Somehow they changed the law some time ago. Monday was the second time they surrounded the school that I know of. The first time was August 1. I heard they let go some of the fish the first time. There also were some halalu in that school. I do not know how they seperate the two, something about one swims on top and the other swims near the bottom. In my opinon the government favors the people who have the money in deciding these matters, that is why the dive people got to close pupkea and why the commercial people get to use nets and boats to catch akule and opelu in the bay. In addition, supposedly these to species are abundant, not fishing waimea should not be problem for the commercial guys but it is a problem for shoreline fisherman because the fish do not enter harbors and bays like they used to. Most of us can not afford to buy boats and fish off shore.

ulua2002
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Re: lay netting

Post by ulua2002 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:02 pm

Hey Brian! Was wondering if you could help me with laynetting regulations. i was fishing for oama on the hickam harbor flats and noticed 2 guys laynetting across the flats near the concrete piling. some of the regulars there said laynetting was offlimits on hickam flats. any truth to this? mahalo, ken

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Re: lay netting

Post by 44808 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:34 pm

Yes, that is a off limits zone.
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Re: lay netting

Post by ulua2002 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:43 pm

44808 wrote:Yes, that is a off limits zone.
thanks for the response 44808. next time i witness this illegal activity, i will be sure to call docare. i should have taken the license plate, but the regulars say it is useless. the game warden would have to witness the incident in order to prosecute.

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Re: lay netting

Post by 44808 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:58 pm

I don't think DOCARE would be able to enforce 'on base'.

They are willing to take information about the incident down, but from my experiences is that they can't do anything.
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Re: lay netting

Post by Naja » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:09 am

You seem to be saying two things at the same time. First your premiss is that the fishery is fine and sustainable and then you talk about the impact on the state of Hawaii fisheries of the acts of just a few fishermen. You seem to imply things our out of our control and then say that even the commercial guys think there is a sustainability problem. I can tell you that if we stopped decimating our bait fish the shore guys would be catching not only Ulua but tuna from shore again.

The problem with how you are asking us to measure our oceans is that it hides the effort put in to the catch. The commercial guys might have just scoped the school from shore as in the past and over time have to chase the catch farther and farther out to sea. What happens is the same with our lost forest a day comes when some greedy guy climbs the mountain and cuts the last one down leaving nothing but scrub brush and ancient stories of how beautiful and lush it used to be and over time people get used to doing without the shade and without the fish.

If it is just a couple of guys doing all the damage then for the benefit of thousands of guys on shore and thousands of more recreational guys not to mention the huge income from sport fishermen and tourists pay those couple of guys some transitional money to find a new livelihood while the fisheries recover. There is no middle ground if you kill of the baitfish there will never be a reason for the predators to stop at the islands. One day soon there will be no more and I am not talking about the stories of mile long bait balls like we used to have not even a generation ago and they still have in WA.

We need enforcement and a ban on commercial fishing close to the islands or at the very least a ban on netting. I just caught more guys laying net over night at the spot I go to and the reef is like a ghost town nothing healthy about it. You can not kill everything you see for a couple of bucks. It is unsustainable and frankly not in the states interest. Making a couple of guys happy vs tens of thousands is not a winning argument and in the end they could do what they did more responsibly and more profitably.

Imagine fishing state wide for Aku from shore like this guy in WA http://youtu.be/Xa5igKpsV1Y they can do it because the bait ball is not killed off for a couple of bucks.
It's also a very common misconception to think it's a lucrative livelyhood having to depend on good weather, favorable tides and no other external disturbances all coinciding with a season when fish are around. Catch for Oahu went down because several long time fishermen either died, gave up and didn't have anyone that wanted to take on the operation or now drive dive tour boats. There's always something way more easier to do.

Sure there are more than one commercial fishermen fishing and, yes, not all of them do things the right way. But the guys that are doing it right are very important because they are monitoring the ocean more than anyone. They have tried to tell everyone about the major changes they've seen over the years but no one listens or takes action and instead, blames them.

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Re: lay netting

Post by Brian F. » Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:43 pm

Naja wrote:You seem to be saying two things at the same time. First your premiss is that the fishery is fine and sustainable and then you talk about the impact on the state of Hawaii fisheries of the acts of just a few fishermen. You seem to imply things our out of our control and then say that even the commercial guys think there is a sustainability problem. I can tell you that if we stopped decimating our bait fish the shore guys would be catching not only Ulua but tuna from shore again.
Sorry, I didn't realize (and am still not sure if) you were directing this to me at first but I saw my quotes taken out of context. But if you are, that's not what I said at all and you might want to read what I typed more carefully. The impacts are from activities on shore that have a much greater overall effect because they damaged essential habitat and the base of the food chain. Also, you missed the part about my take on the cause of the bait fishery decline - search for freshwater.
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Brian F.

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http://fishtoday.org (the views expressed above are my own and do not specifically represent that of PIFG)

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Re: lay netting

Post by Naja » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:54 pm

I was not taking them out of context I was pointing out that I disagree that commercial fishing and netting in particular are of as little effect as you claim. You cant say that a few guys retiring has a noticeable effect of fisheries and than go on to blame other factors such as rainfall or pollutants. I simply disagree that guys netting whole schools of fish are not the cause of there being no schools of fish. You even go on to say that the commercial guys have fishery complaints but no one is interested. I agree Hawaii is piss poor manager of it's natural resources always has been. We can agree to disagree but I just thought it an interesting point that you made showing impact of a few over the good of the many.

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Re: lay netting

Post by ulua2002 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:13 pm

reading on about this issue, i still believe no pole fishermen could damage the infrastructure or enviroment as much as laynetting would. yes, there are responsible netters who would check their net every 2 hrs., but i guarantee you, for every responsible fishermen are more illegal ones. To blame the pole fishermen catching all the predators would affect the bait fish population is ridiculous. i have witnessed how much damage these nets can do. dead baby sharks, dead illegal size fishes. if i catch an undersize papio, i would release it back. if it is stuck in the net it dies. sorry, just fuming. :twisted: :evil: :(

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Re: lay netting

Post by ulua2002 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:25 pm

in a follow up to laynetting at hickam harbor, Alton Miyasaka of DOCARE responded to my inquiry about laynetting on base. "The base has its own separate set of regulations that may or may not be different from State fishing laws. You would need to check with the base to see if laynets are in violation of their regulations. The base security enforces the base fishing regulations so if you see illegal fishing on base, call base security. DOCARE has no jurisdiction on base so they would not respond at any time." :roll: :oops: :(

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Re: lay netting

Post by fishyfishy » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:46 am

I wonder how many registered lay nets there are on oahu? then I wonder, how many illegal nets there are. then I wonder, if its the illegal activity that guys truly hate, or is it the legal lay nets as well?....then I wonder, if illegal netting is such a problem, what guys are doing about getting better enforcement? then I wonder, what are they doing to get better prosecution and meaningful penalties?

Minimum fine starts at $100...with both DLNR headquarter and the State Legislature on Oahu, how come I don't see anyone lobbying for stricter penalties?? If fines started off at $500 or even $1000, accompanied by a restraining order to stay away from the ocean, would compliance be better??....what about commercial guys, the bad ones, that intentionally break laws but don't get their licenses yanked so they continue to make good commercial guys look bad?? who is lobbying DLNR to start suspending commercial licenses??
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Re: lay netting

Post by hrivera007 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:48 am

ulua2002 wrote:in a follow up to laynetting at hickam harbor, Alton Miyasaka of DOCARE responded to my inquiry about laynetting on base. "The base has its own separate set of regulations that may or may not be different from State fishing laws. You would need to check with the base to see if laynets are in violation of their regulations. The base security enforces the base fishing regulations so if you see illegal fishing on base, call base security. DOCARE has no jurisdiction on base so they would not respond at any time." :roll: :oops: :(
Hi Ulua2002. This is kind of conflicting from what I was told by an DLNR officer on post. Yesterday as me and my friends were fishing at the pier, a DLNR office approach us and ask if we have seen a guy laynetting. At first I thought it was Base security kicking us out, till he introduced himself. He said he received a complaint the day before and was following up on it. I ask him if they (DLNR) has any jurisdiction on post. He said that even though is a military base, once the person is commiting a crime in the water, is still Hawaii state waters and DLNR can enforce the law. He said from Koko Head to Iriquois point lay netting was illegal.
I also ask him if the phone number on the sign is the correct contact number for DLNR. He said that number is not a direct line but a voice mail and gets check every morning.
I was happy that at least he was following up on the complaint. Also got a chance to ask him about the shark fin ban and some other stuff.
I heard that when the base security got called for that laynetting incident, they couldnt find the spot. By the time they got there, the individual lay netting dump all the fish back in the water and dig out.

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Re: lay netting

Post by jim » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:55 pm

About a year and a half ago I was fishing at the air national gaurd lot when I saw these guys go out at sunset and retrieve a laynet that must've been out for at least 5 hours cause they were cruising there for awhile. They tried to be sneaky and use their cars to block the view of them pulling out fish. I went up and confronted them but they pretended they didn't know it was illegal, them playing dumb pissed me off more so I called the MPs but the guys dug out before they arrived. Too bad they had a lot of small Oio guarantee undersized.

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