Papio Damage

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slideba8
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Re: Papio Damage

Post by slideba8 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:52 pm

something i just found on last years ahi fever...wow thats a lot fish

2009 was a great tournament! Out of 200 boats that participated, 188 boats caught a total of 262 fish for a total weigh in of 37,221 pounds of fish!

Brian F.
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Re: Papio Damage

Post by Brian F. » Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:08 pm

I'm not sure how people can best go about meeting commercial fishermen. Understandabe it would be pretty tough at the markets, etc. Like you are with new guys that come to ulua spots, I'm sure being on their guard when meeting someone is standard. Of course, nobody says stuff right off the bat, especially if they don't know who you are and to get them to share info - it takes building trust and relationships. My own experience was just through discovering that we all want the same thing - to continue fishing, having our resources managed better and not letting others shut everything down for the wrong reasons.

That situation you mentioned about sitting on the shore happened to someone right here and possibly to a few others. When the fisherman finished his operation, he oared in to give the guys on shore some bags of fish. For this guy, that and oaring in before he starts to check if ok is standard procedure unless it's too rough. That might be a good time. On the other hand, nothing happens if shorecaster starts off with throwing lead.

I certainly did not intend to belittle any casters (especially since I am one) - ruffle feathers maybe to help people see some other perspectives. One thing I've noticed when talking to all kinds of fishermen, or ocean users for that matter, is we all tend to see things only through our own tunnelvision and make everyone else the bad guy. And that's just because we don't know enough about the other stuff. When I was referring to learning about fishing, it wasn't specifically about catching an ulua but more about the ocean and, sometimes things that do affect ulua fishing.

Do I catch more? :lol: Nomo, haven't caught an ulua in years - I'm a plug! Knowing what to do and being able to like you guys is something totally different. Besides, I don't have time to go fish because there are too many things to do so that we all can keep going fishing. Next time I see you I'll explain.
Aloha,
Brian F.

"No House, No Fish"
"Hypocrisy is not a fault these days - it is a lifestyle"
http://fishtoday.org (the views expressed above are my own and do not specifically represent that of PIFG)

mrfocker
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Re: Papio Damage

Post by mrfocker » Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:56 pm

What will happen when all the uluas are gone?
The hardcore ulua slidebaiters-shorecasters will have to find another hobby. Sad for the guys that only have ulua fishing to glorify on.

44808
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Re: Papio Damage

Post by 44808 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:26 am

From the HSD Forums...
Every time the word "ban" is spoken, it's a good sign that there's something wrong and the person hasn't thought it all the way through. You can't, and shouldn't, just go banning nets.

There are probably some type of fish where nets should no be used. There are some types of net that are worse than others. But, it doesn't mean that nets are just plain bad, and it doesn't mean that banning nets would have a positive effect in the long run.

For some types of fish, surround nets are a very good method - manini, weke, akule, and especially taape come to mind. If you feel these species are being depleted by too much netting, the solution isn't to just ban the fishing method, but to manage the fishery properly so that it's not being overexploited. If fishermen are not being responsible and are setting up in a way that takes too much bycatch or damages the reef, then the state should identify these problems and create rules to reduce their occurrence (and hopefully an enforcement regime).

There are too many types of net to just make a blanket ban. It's not just the stereotype of Micronesians setting out a net and catching all the baby fish. Nor is it the stereotype of a Radon full of guys who surround an entire school of fish and pull up all the undersized ones. Even gill nets aren't all bad - I've met a couple guys who use them to paepae taape, which can only be a good thing. I'm probably going to start doing this myself one of these days, since a few of my spots are in dire need of a cleanup.

The problem is, what happens when you ban a fishing method or close a fishery? Fishermen won't just stop netting and work at Home Depot - they'll keep fishing but will move to other methods and the same amount of biomass will be taken from the ocean. Some species will thrive, but others will be hit even harder than before. To make a living fishing, you can't just catch the same stuff all year round - you need to be able to have a diversity of methods and be able to rotate your activities in order to reduce the pressure on the resource. Limiting this ability, without actually managing the fishery itself, can be a very bad thing.

So, you ban all surround nets. Now what? Some guys will move to spearfishing. The weke and akule (which are plentiful and don't really need protection) will be safe, but now menpachi, uhus, and kumus will be hit even harder. So now what? Ban scuba tanks? Now some commercial guys will be forced into the same grounds where recreational divers go, everyone will be on top of each other, and there will be less fish for everyone. Meanwhile, there are plenty of fish elsewhere that nobody can use. In the long run it doesn't work. You could ban the sale of reef fish, but that wouldn't be fair to all the people who want to eat them but can't fish themselves, nor would it be fair to all the commercial fishermen who really are responsible and do a good job of it.

The other thing that's very dangerous (since it was brought up in the first post) is passing bills through the state legislature. It might seem like a quick fix if DLNR isn't acting fact enough, but it's a double edged sword. Basically, it means politicians are the ones dictating fishing policy based on emotion and public opinion, rather than DLNR, which is supposed to work with real science and act in the best interests of fishermen. Unfortunately, it's too easy for some politicians to be influenced by special interests - environmental groups, animal rights groups, tour companies, etc. Some of these groups even actively obstruct science-based management, since they know it doesn't suit their purposes. Not cool! In the end it's treating the symptoms without curing the disease - the only real solution is to work towards getting DLNR a lot more funding and ensuring that they have a mandate to manage fishing responsibly and appropriately. This is probably a long way away, and will require a lot of work, but it's what needs to happen.
Rippin' lips

davistn
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Re: Papio Damage

Post by davistn » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:19 am

Wow, nice find Radon Boats. I applaud the person who wrote that.

banzai
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Re: Papio Damage

Post by banzai » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:05 pm

Brian F. wrote:One half of the tag and release effort is to get it in people’s minds that it is better to let fish go. But the caveat is that people tend to go overboard because they have tunnel vision and look at every fish as precious – thus the flyfisherman syndrome of “I’m better than you because I only release fish” that happens even here. The other half of the effort is to gather information about the fish by releasing them and comparing them when re-caught so that we make better informed management decisions and not base it on "it's better if we close it all off". At the same time, I’ve always emphasized that we should be able to eat what we catch and what others provide us with if you look back at my posting history.

I really don't think this kind of thing is damaging based on the facts that 1. there are very few people that know how to do this kind of fishing and, even though they are good enough to keep doing it consistently for a living to have a damaging impact, they don't - you can count on your hand how many full time commercial fishermen there are and 2. just about all of them rarely go after papio/ulua because the market just doesn't want it due to ciguatera. Just look at the commercial landing reports that everyone points to as "declining". It's not declining since 1985 because there's less fish but it’s because no one is actually going out to catch ulua for the market. If anyone’s been fishing since then, you know that’s when ciguatera really became widely known. The fish are still there – commercial guys say the ulua fishery is very healthy as they see with their own eyes the amounts out there – the fish didn’t disappear after commercial guys stopped fishing for them.

I think if we pay attention a little more in school, one of the lessons we are taught is that not everything in the world is what we are lead to believe (you know, like how the world was flat). And that especially can be the case when people repeat things over and over, like "laynetters or commercial guys take everything". They don’t because that’s how they keep generations of their families fishing – you don’t kill the goose that lays the golden egg. But just like a mathematical equation, which I know you know well nomotako, if you have too many unknowns, your answer comes out funny kine. Our world of ulua fishing is viewed through some very narrow tubes and we don't realize that there is a whole other world that we know very little about but judge as though we know everything. Basically, our world as ulua fishermen exists to about as far as we can cast and beyond that is total mystery to 99.9% of us. Think about it, even at the most crowded spot, we cover an arc of maybe 200 yard radius and hope that something comes close enough to eat whatever food there’s supposed to be where we are fishing. Ulua habitat extends out to God knows how far and how deep where there’s tons of better food to eat and we wonder why we don’t catch anything most of the time. A friend of mine who is a master fisherman but knew nothing about slide bait fishing himself wondered why we would fish so inefficiently.

But, is it really that bad? I seem to recall some east Oahu spots are having phenomenal years these past few and, in fact, a few particular spots that have not been hot in years are just going off. Of course, most people never hear about this because the guys get mad when people talk. I’d say that the amount and sizes in the photo pale in comparison to what some of the “pounders” at these East Oahu spots can catch of the really big producers in terms of eggs.

Thanks, nomotako for the suggestion. I already have very good relationships with a few fishermen that make a living fishing and have learned literally 100s of times more about fishing from them than I could in an entire lifetime of fishing for ulua. I highly recommend it to just about everyone with an open mind to get to know someone like that. Many of us think we know it all because we've been fishing ulua for 10-20 years. But how many of us actually spend any time in the water from 0 to 150 feet looking at the grounds, what the fish do, when they come, when they go, what conditions cause them to do certain things, what external impacts cause them to do, etc. etc. And on top of that, do it at all times of the day and night and 90% of the days in the year? I listen to what these guys do and what they know about the ocean and really, I feel pretty silly calling myself "experienced".
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banzai
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Re: Papio Damage

Post by banzai » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:08 pm

this one

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b4huxley
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Re: Papio Damage

Post by b4huxley » Mon May 23, 2011 6:05 pm

Im originally from Alaska looking at the Hawaii fishery I think the only thing that could be done differently in regards to Laynetting is limitting it to permits and only a specific ammount allowed a year simmilar to bear or moose tags in alaska so that the resources do not get abused. Also make Laynetting available to hawaii residents. Thats just my opnion though.
Id rather be fishing

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