Trashbagging Conflicts

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bumboocha
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Trashbagging Conflicts

Post by bumboocha » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:42 pm

THe Method: If anyone has been down to South Point in the last 10-15yrs or so, you've noticed the shoreline with at least a half-dozen (sometimes up to 15!) black trashbags hovering 400-700yds out in the ocean. THis is a very ingenious way to catch pelagic fish from shore like Ahi, Marlin, Uku, Ulua, KAmanu, and MAhi. Fisherman use 6-9/0's, blow up a big 50gal trashbag with air and tie it off to light line, let the offshore wind blow it out to sea, then connect that to a swivel and leader with a water bottle float on their main line. THey bait up and let the wind carry the whole setup 300-600yds out. South Point has a 10-25mph offshore wind almost contantly blowing 24/7. This is the system people have been using a long time there due to the reliable winds and deep "pelagic fish" water so close to shore.

The Problem:
1. The biggest problem is when a fish bites, the bag almost always breaks off and pollutes the ocean with plastic. 2-3 bags/day, 7days a week, 365 days a year in the ocean, thats a lot of pollution. This is why trashbagging is illegal and you risk getting fined/gear confiscated by DLNR for polluting the ocean.
2. a lot of fisherman, not all, leave their bags out all day and night and many times do not monitor it. Current/winds shift and bags end up parallel to shore cutting off any fisherman from whipping without tangling their line. I personally have cut choke guys lines due to them sleeping and not watching their bags. I hate having to pull it in by hand, but if i don't, I can't fish so I cut um. One guy got nuts once and we almost tussled on the cliff. He realized he was wrong and apologized, but it shouldn't have even went that far.
3. Trashbag lines are out 200-600+ yds out with the mainline on the waters surface. This blocks boating lanes and the calm water inside the "Wind LIne" where divers, kayakers, jetskiers and small boats like to travel to avoid the harsh winds. I dive 200-400yds offshore, and everytime i hit a bag line, I need to coil up my tag line and swim under the lines which is a PITA to say the least. PLus some fishermen get all nuts if you touch their line. What they like me do? Swim out 600+yds just to go around??? Ulua poles bombed far out swing back to the cliffs and end up 10-50yds max from shore so it's never a problem for divers, kayakers, and other ocean-goers who are well away from their lines even at just 150yds offshore

In the past 5-7yrs I've seen baggers explode in numbers down there. Its a friggen ZOO down there to say the least. Before days, you'd see maybe 1 or 2 guys w/ a bag seup. Now, its mostly all baggers fishing the coastline except for Suicide rock, and even there got bags a lot of times. On any given weekend there's at least 5-10 bags out. Every 100-200yds of coastline got a bag out. IF you dive the coast, it's not uncommon to duck under 2-3 bags on a dive. I hear more and more of conflicts of baggers vs divers, or baggers vs baggers, baggers vs boaters, etc etc. Even got some scraps every now and then down there. I just heard of another fisherman shooting a real .22 cal gun at another guys unattended bag trying to flat it cause it was in his way just the other week. Is all this worth it??? I dont' trashbag. I've done it a few times in the past and caught fish 10+yrs ago, but now I know better and I'm totally against it becuase it pollutes the ocean which i can't stand.

What do you think should be done?? Should these fisherman be able block and "kapu" waters 500yds+ from shore in front their poles? Do you think they have the right to prevent boats from driving in boating lanes? Should they block divers from using the coastline too? Sorry for the long post, but i hear a lot of troubles over this issue, especially recently.
Last edited by bumboocha on Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Trashbagging Conflicts

Post by DriftingSon » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:38 pm

It's great to hear a serious fisherman speaking out against these methods. It's definitely a serious issue, and it always seemed to me to be a bit over the top as a method of obtaining bragging rights for a big fish, when other methods seem to work just as well (bearing in mind I'm a total newb- correct me if I'm wrong). Anyone who has spent any amount of time anywhere along the Ka`u coast, from Ka Lae to Punalu`u can vouch for the disgusting amount of plastic that washes ashore due to the North Pacific Gyre. Captain Charles Moore of the ORV Alguita has been studying the plastic in the gyre since 1999 and is in the middle of re-sampling the exact coordinates from his first expedition- and finding amounts of plastic and debris far higher than ever. If you are interested in keeping up with the current expedition, you can follow their daily updates here, and be sure to note today's post, where they write that they cannot troll a lure very long at all before it becomes ensnared in a net or something. And that's in the middle of the Pacific!

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Re: Trashbagging Conflicts

Post by Brian F. » Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:28 am

While I understand the conflicts trash bagging poses, I am very much against (ironically) railing particular techniques or characterizing them as "not fair", "unsportsmanlike", "extreme" or "over the top". When you get right down to it and look at any fishing technique, even slide bait or simply using a rod and reel, the same characterizations can be made for each and every one of them: "point a finger and there are three pointing back". Keep in mind that there are other people who object to slide bait ulua fishing also because they feel it causes an interference, it's too effective, leaves gear in the water, etc.. This is not to justify any particular method but simply to point out that it's something different that people do and there are ways to do things along side each other without demonizing anyone.

It seems a couple of simple things can be done to avoid these conflicts and trash bag fishermen can do them themselves out of common courtesy, consideration for others and civility or we can have the State step in and make more unenforceable rules. Just some ideas: 1. Pay attention to your gear so it doesn't drift off to the side to cut others off 2. tie the bag on with heavy line so that it doesn't detach from your gear 3. add flags and lights to your line to make them visible (and maybe identify them as bag lines to be avoided). Or, if it's that deep, have the line sink down far enough for boats to traverse.

To simply say, "this stuff is bad" or "it's got to stop" because of conflicts seems to me the wrong road to go down.
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Re: Trashbagging Conflicts

Post by bumboocha » Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:09 pm

Brian, I'm not against any "particular style" of fishing, however, I AM against illegal methods of fishing. To me, this is the same as throwing net with 1" eyes. Both will get you fined by DLNR.
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Re: Trashbagging Conflicts

Post by DriftingSon » Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:58 pm

Brian F. wrote:While I understand the conflicts trash bagging poses, I am very much against (ironically) railing particular techniques or characterizing them as "not fair", "unsportsmanlike", "extreme" or "over the top". When you get right down to it and look at any fishing technique, even slide bait or simply using a rod and reel, the same characterizations can be made for each and every one of them: "point a finger and there are three pointing back".


To simply say, "this stuff is bad" or "it's got to stop" because of conflicts seems to me the wrong road to go down.

I totally see your point and agree for the most part, but where is the line drawn? Using explosives is a method of catching fish. Surface chum and high powered rifles? Plant based stunning toxins? There is a line to be drawn, but I don't really think that is the main issue with trashbags- it's plastic, and the interference of others' right to fish, by way of inhibiting boating and diving. That's my take.

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Re: Trashbagging Conflicts

Post by omer110 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:38 pm

Trashbaggers shouldn't block hundreds of yards from shore. I don't know why some people need to send the bag so far out. I don't have a rig so I don't know where it's best to place the bait. But it is very dangerous for the boats because sometimes the bag is so hard to see due to the swells. It's a lose-lose situation since baggers can lose their line and boaters can damage their motors. When I dive the ledge out there, no one seemed to mind and they shouldn't since their bait is way out there. As far as blue water divers, I notice that they don't even bother going by the trashbaggers. They either go down to broken landing or on the left side of suicides. A common problem I see is not paying attention to their bag due to the current or they don't care and block of people's casting range.
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Re: Trashbagging Conflicts

Post by Makule » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:52 pm

Having used the trash bag style of fishing, and most other styles of fishing used in Hawaii, I appreciate the points made by everyone here. I'd also point out that unattended trash bags that drift uncontrolled, is a problem for others who are using trash bags too, so it's not limited to just caster, divers, etc. It's a problem for everyone.

For the most part, I agree with what Brian F. has stated: It comes down to a matter of courtesy and respect for all involved. The resource is to be shared. I personally don't have a problem with divers going over my line as long as they don't tangle it with their gear or cut it off. The same holds for those in kayaks. For the most part, boats and trash bags have learned to live with each other. As pointed out earlier, it is a lose-lose situation when a boat runs over the line and cuts it off.

I try to minimize problems by: 1) Using strong line to tie the bag, which does not break off when a fish is on; 2) Using a white trash bag that has greater visibility; 3) Putting on lights at night; 4) Pulling the bag out at night before I go to sleep; and 5) Continuously monitoring the bag and wind/current. Unfortunately, no matter what, there will always be rotten apples (like the time when someone in a boat stole a $40 strobe off my line, that I could later see flashing at the, now bulldozed, shack camp) so those who care will take precautions, and those who don't won't.

Yeah, firing guns is a good thing. It's happened before at Ka Lae (in the 60s I think) when getting to Suicide Rock became extremely competitive and the Coast Guard (apparently with DHHL cooperation) closed off the area so no one could go down for a long time.

One way or another, a "balance" will be reached. What that balance will be is unknown, and it will probably continue to evolve. Not all fishermen are smart, and not all fishermen are stupid. Unfortunately, the stupid/selfish ones will be those who will screw things up for everyone if self-regulation does not occur (as Brian says, "have the State step in and make more unenforceable rules).

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Re: Trashbagging Conflicts

Post by NagataBusinessGroup » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:34 pm

Yeah I fish south point all the time. Well use to anyway but since its been getting fished out I don't go there as much. As far as trash bags go, I know that it makes a bunch of rubbish and I know what plastics and crap in the ocean can do to beaches (go take a drive down Kamilo beach). I gotta admit that I have lost a few rubbish bags from time to time, but now when I do trash bag I use heavy line like 35lb test some times 40lb test. The heavier line makes it a TOTAL pain in the butt when you're trying to get your trash bag to fly out, especially if you're up on the higher cliffs and the winds are light, but it's a little thing that I can do to help. I also tie a swivel so that the line wont twist, kink and break off easily.

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Re: Trashbagging Conflicts

Post by wmjking » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:49 pm

Please show where DLNR will fine us for Trash Bag fishing in the regs. Tnx. wm

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